In this episode of Life Intended, host Kelly Berry interviews Sarah Williamson, a coach, mentor, and author of the bestselling book Drink Less; Live Better. Sarah shares her journey to living alcohol-free and her approach to helping individuals reconsider their relationship with alcohol without needing a "rock bottom" moment. They discuss the societal narratives around drinking, the power of mindfulness, and practical strategies for creating healthier habits.
The Cultural Influence of Alcohol: Alcohol is deeply embedded in our culture, from celebratory toasts to stress-relieving glasses of wine after a long day. It’s easy to see why many feel that life without alcohol might be lonely, boring, or even miserable. But what if we’ve been sold a narrative that keeps us from experiencing the full spectrum of our emotions and connections? By rethinking our relationship with alcohol, we can challenge the idea that socializing or relaxing requires a drink in hand.
It's important to distinguish between emotional and physical dependence. While physical dependence is often associated with severe addiction, emotional dependence can be more subtle, yet just as impactful. Emotional dependence on alcohol can manifest as a reliance on that evening drink to signal relaxation or as the belief that socializing without alcohol is somehow less enjoyable. It’s these ingrained habits and beliefs that can keep us tethered to alcohol, even when it no longer serves us.
Mindful drinking is about making conscious choices regarding alcohol. It’s not about deprivation or strict abstinence; rather, it’s about awareness and intention. When you choose to drink less, you create space to explore how alcohol truly fits into your life—and whether it needs to be there at all.
When you reduce your alcohol intake, the benefits can be immediate and profound. Improved mental clarity, better sleep, enhanced emotional resilience—these are just a few of the positive changes you might notice. By drinking less, you may find that you’re more in tune with your emotions, more present in your relationships, and more capable of handling life’s challenges without reaching for a drink.
One of the biggest obstacles to embracing mindful drinking is the stigma attached to sobriety. The labels we use—"alcoholic," "sober," "teetotaler"—can feel limiting and loaded with judgment. But these labels don’t have to define you. Choosing to drink less doesn’t mean you need to identify with a particular label; it simply means you’re making a choice that aligns with your values and your life goals.
Sobriety doesn’t have to be lonely, miserable, or boring. In fact, many people find that life without alcohol is fuller, richer, and more rewarding. It’s about finding joy in experiences without needing alcohol as a crutch. For me, redefining what sobriety means has been key to embracing a life of intention and purpose.
If you’re curious about drinking less but aren’t sure where to start, here are some practical steps to help you on your journey:
Choosing to drink less is about more than just cutting back on alcohol—it’s about living with intention. It’s about making choices that align with your values and bring you closer to the life you truly want to live. You don’t need to wait for a crisis to make a change. You can start today, right now, and discover the benefits of a life less influenced by alcohol.
Drinking less could be the best decision you never made, and it might just lead you to a life filled with more clarity, connection, and joy than you ever imagined. So why not give it a try?
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Connect with Sarah:
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Kelly Berry (00:00) Hi friends and welcome to or welcome back to Life Intended. Life Intended is a podcast that explores what it means to be true to yourself and live an authentic and purposeful life. Each episode explores my guest's version of personal growth, self discovery, and the pursuit of becoming the best version of themselves as well as how to find the joy in the journey. And thank you to so many of you who have been listening. Really quick before we get started, just one more reminder if you could subscribe to the podcast on whatever app you're listening and please leave a rating and review. That is the single best way for new listeners to find the show and for me to help or for me to grow it. So if you've done so, thank you. And if not, please take a second to do that. And so on to today's episode. I am really excited to talk to awesome guest, Sarah Williamson on a topic that I really can't wait to dive into. When I started my podcast, there were a few topics I knew I wanted to have experts on and talk about. And Sarah's topic today is one of those. So I can't wait to have this conversation. Sarah is a coach, mentor, expert speaker, podcaster, and bestselling author of Drink Less, Live Better. She has spent the last 15 years coaching and mentoring individuals who've struggled with anxiety, stress, and other mental health challenges. She works with her clients to identify thinking patterns and address the associated feelings and emotions around their alcohol consumption. Sarah believes that choosing to change your relationship with alcohol doesn't require you to hit rock bottom, doesn't require a messy war story, and doesn't require huge internal struggle. I think that's gonna be a great conversation. So welcome, Sarah. I'm really excited to chat with you today.
Sarah Williamson (01:48) Hi, I'm so delighted to be here. Thanks so much for having me.
Kelly Berry (01:53) Yeah, great. I know that what we just talked about, like you and I had a conversation and you have kind of a unique perspective on drinking less, choosing an alcohol -free life. So tell us a little bit about your story and how you got to where you were to where you are today.
Sarah Williamson (02:14) I'd be delighted to. suppose that where I am today is four and a half just over years without a drink and this place in my life would have been completely unimaginable five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago. I have spent the last fifteen years working in my old employment with young people specifically around their substance use and misuse whilst drinking wine or gin and tonic for most of that myself and never really thinking about my own drinking. I would have said to you I wasn't causing anybody else any trouble with my drinking but I was certainly causing myself some trouble let's say I'll come back to that and actually choosing a while ago to put a full stop to my drinking and decide to do an experiment around how life is without alcohol in it has really led me to a brilliant and unexpected place. I would say that the early years of my drinking probably looked quite normal for want of a better word. I'm based in the UK and I grew up in a tiny village where there was no shops but two pubs and so the entertainment was being in the pub in the evening. I probably started drinking at about 14 with friends and in the park and at parties, went to university, had a very traditional UK student relationship with alcohol, which involved a huge amount of over drinking. I started work in London after I'd finished university where the mantra was work hard, play hard. And I think we all know that that's a euphemism for work hard and get wrecked. The play hard bit is drink a massive amount. And I certainly fully subscribed to that way of living. I suppose through my 20s I had periods where my drinking would have been considered to be massive binge drinking, potentially on nights out. But also I would say I was consistently drinking at the same time. So even if I was at home, I would have cracked open a bottle of wine. You know, there wasn't really such a thing as taking a break from alcohol through that time. I met my husband when I was 25 and we got married quite quickly after that and quickly after that had our two boys. Through that period of my life I drank very little, certainly when I was pregnant and breastfeeding I didn't drink at all and didn't struggle with not drinking either, it was just a decision not to drink and that was fine, that was what I did. And then once the boys were toddlers, I slipped back into drinking. And that period of my life, I now look back on and feel probably most sad about, I think sad is the right word, because that was a time period where I was really struggling with my identity, that shift from going from working full time in a job where I was responsible for a big team of people, responsible for lots of money, responsible for, you know, had some big decisions to make, to being at home with two tiny children was such an almighty shift, was exhausting. Of course doesn't come with any kind of instruction manual and it depends for all of us what kind of support network we have around us, who else is modeling for us, what great parenting looks like for tiny children where, what are we reading? Where are we being inspired? And I think I alongside feeling knackered was seeing this kind of narrative around mummy juice and it's wine o 'clock somewhere, sorry it's five o 'clock, wine o 'clock somewhere, it's five o 'clock somewhere, the whole you know, hurrah for gin in the UK we do you know loads of mugs and birthday cards and sign, decor signs to hang in your kitchen that is all around the drink the Prosecco, drink the gin, know, catchy little snow slogans. you but if you try and buy a birthday card for a 30th or 40th or a 50th friend that hasn't got a bottle of champagne on the front, you've got a hard task, you've really got a hard task. And so I definitely found myself in this place of recognizing that really what I was was incredibly overwhelmed, but my tool for dealing with it had become alcohol, know, shutting my mind down a bit, numbing out, trying to escape a bit from what was going on. And really that sort of unfolding through those years when my kids were smaller and I arrived at a particular point in 2017 and I remember the day I've got a train ticket that I kept from that day. I went out with some friends in London, had our usual kind of night out which involved cocktails, dinner, wine, more drinks afterwards, getting the train home and I had such an almighty hangover the next day and I had had almighty hangovers before. But that was the one in 2017 where I woke up the next morning and I absolutely knew I was going to do something different. I knew something was going to change. And the slightly unfortunate thing is that it actually took me two and a half years to get ready to do the change. But that was the moment that I knew for sure. And I'm so glad that I have a moment in my mind that I can point to and say, that was it. That was when I just knew something was going to change. And I was so glad to have allowed myself to follow that cookie crumb to where it took me.
Kelly Berry (08:41) Yeah. Yeah. So what did that two and a half years look like for you?
Sarah Williamson (08:53) It was, I think if I look back on it now, I would tell you it was a period of education. But if you'd have asked me at the time, I'd have said it was a period of confusion and not understanding what was going on for me. It was a period of feeling quite lonely. It was a period in which I tried to open conversations with people who I knew, loved and trusted and looked to for a particular type of support and I now recognise were never equipped to give me the kind of support that I needed but I couldn't recognise that at the time. So that two and a half years now, now I've got the language but I didn't then, I would tell you was a time of moderation, of drinking less, of mindful drinking, of being quite experimental.
Kelly Berry (09:29) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (09:52) So choosing to start learning about what does a night out feel like with five cocktails versus what does a similar night out look like with one cocktail, a glass of water either side of that and a cup of coffee at the end. And running these kinds of almost quite structured experiments for myself and weighing up what the next day felt like and the day after that felt like on that basis. I also started, I suppose now I recognize this but didn't at the time, I started to look for the role models. So who around me was, who did I know in real life who was doing this stuff? And sadly the answer to that at the time was no one. So how did I start to unravel for myself?
Kelly Berry (10:21) Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (10:48)
where could I find the people that I might see online? And again, I really struggled with that as well because I could see that there were a lot of stories being told out there that looked like big drama and I didn't want any big drama and don't the movies tell us and don't the books tell us about, you know, the person who needed family intervention and they lost their job or they crashed their car or they blew up their relationship because of the impact alcohol was having on their life or or how somebody needed to take that decision away from them and I was seeing these stories and was telling myself because I wasn't pouring vodka on my cornflakes or because you know, I could get through a day without a drink, then I wasn't like them. But the thing that nobody sees on the outside is the inner turmoil. And of course, I'm not saying that there isn't a place for a medical detox and a rehab and a family intervention. Of course, those are valid stories. And absolutely, they are there being told because they are true stories. But I felt like I was caught in a place where my drinking wasn't like that kind of drinking therefore where did I sit on this scale of you know if it's not that bad then clearly I'm okay and of course this kind of narrative when you start voicing this stuff out with your friends they might say something like you're no worse than the rest of us or but don't worry you know by that stage I would never have been drinking at home, know, by that stage into 2018 and 19, my drinking only would have been done out, you know, socially with friends. So they were saying things to me like, you know, but you haven't got a problem because you're not drinking every day. And, you know, I could do a dry January, I could do a sober October. So all of this stuff feeds into the nothing to see here kind of story. And the UK government guidelines for low risk drinking currently sit at 14 units a week for men and women. So people tend to use that as a yardstick for well, if you're drinking less than that, then there is no problem because what have we been given? Have we been given a marker to say, drink up to this and you'll be fine. But the reality is that one glass of wine can really have a negative effect on somebody. One drink can. And that's where I had got to the final bit of the internal argument that cognitive dissonance for me was around. Okay, so I'm not that bad. I recognize that but also this is not as good as it could be. final switch. Okay, I'm just experiment then without alcohol and then I'll have something to really make a comparison to and then I'll know what I'm doing.
Kelly Berry (14:13) Yeah. So something that you said when you were talking just really resonated with me and what I think is a big struggle for people. And you were talking about, you know, I know you have like your own perspective on labels. So I'll use this as like context to what I'm talking about. I want to go into how you label as well. But, you know, like when we talk about an alcoholic and we talk about the decision to stop drinking being taken away from them. They have an intervention, they get put into rehab. They're not making the decision for themselves. Yet here in the story that you're talking about, really, if you're not labeled as an alcoholic and you are a productive member of society, some people may call it a functioning alcoholic or just, all of the ways that you described it, really, the struggle is, no one is gonna make the decision for you. And so it's that internal battle that you were talking about, the cognitive dissonance, trying to justify or compare or really just make sure like, am I okay? Or sometimes maybe it would just be easier if somebody could come and take this decision away from me so I don't have to struggle with it anymore. But you know, I think that that's a big struggle for a lot of people who don't consider their drinking problematic, but really don't like how they are with alcohol in their life.
Sarah Williamson (15:44) And I find myself now thinking quite a lot about that if you know if somebody were if we were to talk about being addicted to alcohol and talk about the idea that somebody's physically dependent on that substance I've spent a lot of time recently thinking about the idea that I know I at the end of my drinking I was not physically addicted to alcohol
but I for sure had an emotional dependence on it. And then I have this back and forth, well, is that better or worse? You know, where do I sit with that then? And actually a lot of the thinking that I do around that emotional dependence on it, you know, the idea that something good or something perhaps negative happens to us and our friends are around with a bottle of Prosecco or something shocking happens. So somebody hands us a bourbon or you name the situation where somebody isn't gonna come at you with a drink to try and either improve the situation or let the situation out a bit more, a bit than it might be. And actually recognizing that as human beings, we're supposed to feel the full range of our emotions and how difficult that is if we're not used to that.
Kelly Berry (16:54) Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (17:09) What is really, really raw grief? What is it when you're sitting at a funeral and you are beyond devastated and what you are learning to do is really be in line with that grief and feel the physical pain of it, the emotional turmoil, and you don't take the edge of it with that drink that it might have been. So all of that idea around be recognising that some of my emotional dependence was on the idea of being overwhelmed. What it then felt for me to do was the work of un -overwhelming myself in some way, again, guess what, nobody else is coming to rescue you for that either.
Kelly Berry (17:42) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I got an email a couple of weeks ago and it's from somebody just trying to help people kind of live in alignment with their purpose, which is what I'm trying to do really with podcasts as well. it was kind of like she put out this four -step list of how to know when you're not. And number four was increased numbing activities. And I think, you know, I read that and I think about alcohol a lot. And because it's a part of my life, you you and I talked like I'm not alcohol free. I do think about the role that I want alcohol to play in my life. you know, I'm in this probably where you were in that two and a half years, like trying to figure some things out, but, you know, increased numbing activities can be a lot of things. And it, you know, it's all to what you were just talking about, like trying to prevent us from feeling what we need to feel and like, letting the feelings out so we can be healthy and not suppressing all of that stuff. But alcohol is a big one for a lot of people. But it can also be scrolling on social media. It can also be watching Netflix. It can be excessive sleeping. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Williamson (19:06) Eating the ice cream, so many different things, so many different things. And I think that feeds into as well. Where do we go after we have brought some awareness to whatever thing is that we might be doing? Okay, so then we get to a level of acceptance with it. So we're gonna take some action, let's say. That place that you might get to where somebody will say something to you. But you've got to have some pleasure in life. If you take away all of these things, what is it? We've been sold so much of, and also we've been modeled different ways of coping with life. And what do the movies show us? What does our Instagram feed show us? And I think that point beautifully about being really intentional and recognising the difference between what we say our values are and how we act in accordance with them or don't. Because it's really easy to say, I take my physical fitness really seriously and perhaps I do the yoga, I drink the green smoothie, I do the 5k run, but I'm coming home in the evening and necking half a bottle of wine because actually I'm exhausted. I've forgotten to take my supplements again and nobody is supporting me with the kids and really I just want somebody else to cook dinner for me.
Kelly Berry (20:45) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. There's a lot of layers to it because although we talked about just a minute ago, the decision ultimately is yours to make for your life, but the influences around you and the culture, like the alcohol culture and all the exposure to it and the expectation, it's just complex.
Sarah Williamson (20:46) It's hard. It's hard.
Kelly Berry (21:13) I think that that is a good segue into you talking about kind of the labels that you've settled on, I guess we'll say, that you like to use because I think that does contribute to how people think about the decision.
Sarah Williamson (21:30) Totally it does. my goodness, I had such a narrative running in my head during that sort of figuring out period, that two and a half years where if ever I thought about the word sober, my line that came immediately after it was lonely, miserable and boring. And if you pick a word like that and then attach all these connotations to it, guess what? You are not gonna feel joyful, hopeful and excited about the mission that you are potentially setting yourself. So the language thing I think is so important to get right for you as an individual. Nobody else can do that for you. So that person who says, I am an alcoholic and I can never drink again. And, you know, this is my description of how I'm living my life. I say amazing, brilliant. I'm, you know, for any of us to claim our label in whatever area of life that feels empowering and encouraging for you, then that can only be an amazing thing. I still have a bit of internal conflict around what I would say to a stranger or I suppose an acquaintance around my drinking habits. And I suppose I'd caveat what I'm about to say by saying, you owe nobody any explanation for anything that you do in life. Full stop. That so often we think we owe people either a bit of our story or a justification. And the answer to that is no, you don't. What is your business is your business. And you have the power to keep as much of that to yourself as you want to. Having said that, I in a lots of professional circles describe myself as a sober coach. That is a big part of the work that I do. But I wouldn't necessarily describe myself as being sober. Even though I absolutely am sober, I do not drink. I am more likely to talk about being alcohol free, alcohol free living. I am more likely in a situation where I'm out with people I don't know.If somebody was offering me an alcoholic drink, I'd be more likely to just say no thanks to that drink, not necessarily give an explanation, but if I felt I needed to, I might say, no thanks, actually, I don't drink. I went through a really long period in the early days of my sobriety of over explaining myself. And I would be in situations where I would say, no, it's all right, thanks. I'm not drinking this month because I'm training for, you know, to do some, you know, or I'm concentrating on my my fitness this month, or I'm taking a really keen focus on my nutrition this month. And I would sort of try and deflect what I was doing as a contained part of something, something bigger, or something else that was on in my life. And at that point, I was definitely concerned about bringing other people into the knowledge of my experiment. So what I had originally decided I was going to do was have one year alcohol free. And I'd chosen that as a timeframe because I already knew I could do a month. Therefore I assumed I probably do three months, but a year felt like a good stretch goal. And
Kelly Berry (25:02) Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (25:10) I thought to myself, if I do a whole year, then at the end of the year, I can evaluate and I'll decide I'm either going to go back to drinking in a moderate and mindful way, or I'll have learned something about myself and maybe I'll just carry on my experiment. I'll just wait and see how it goes. I was very keen not to mention that I was doing this for a year to my friends because I didn't want to have any of those conversations around justifying it or explaining it. So what I kept on doing, I suppose, was kicking the ball down the alley a bit and just while they weren't paying attention, sort of deflecting on. I love the conversations that we can have around mindful drinking, around drinking less. I think there's a big conversation going on that people tend to make quite binary about moderation and that conversation tends to look quite black and white and people might tell you, moderation, I can't do it, you know, I can't drink a small amount, I don't have an off switch, moderate drinking is a fool's game, you know, why would you have one when you can choose to have none? Some of this I find or certainly I would have found five years ago quite difficult to listen to because by that period in my drinking I absolutely could moderate. I could go out with my girlfriends, have two glasses of wine and not think about wine for another month. I will not ever come over to the side that says moderation isn't possible. For me, it absolutely was possible and for you or for whoever it is thinking about it. I don't know for you whether it is possible for you, only you will know by running your own experiment. And so I love all of the Technicolor in between the binary, know, actually mindful drinking the idea that you can be really thoughtful about. I'm in a bar and the option might be really nasty white wine that I have tried before and I know there's only one choice of this white wine and I don't like it, I am going to choose on that day actually to splash out and have the really fancy cocktail and I'm just going to have one of them because I know that I'm going to really enjoy that beautiful look of that drink in that glass or whatever the thing is and be really cautious about choosing something that you love and that is going to bring you the joy and the feelings that you want to feel in that moment. Don't be at a music festival and drink a lager that you don't like just because you're in the music festival. That music festival will be amazing anyway because you're seeing a band you love and you're with your friends and the sun is shining. You're already going to have a lovely time. You don't need to drink the nasty beer just because that is the only thing that's on offer. It's just about being choosy and finding the right way through it. I think that idea as well around sober curiosity, that gives us so much power to allow ourselves to explore, you know, so maybe I choose sober for the next 30 days or two months or a week. I'm just going to really lean into it and learn about myself and what my thoughts are around what is put in front of me, what I navigate easily what I really struggle to navigate and use it as a learning exercise. So all of these labels, I think let's put them all on the table. Let's take a look at the ones that don't quite feel like you and move them off the table. That's totally okay to do. And let's move closer and look at some of the more expensive, perhaps wider feeling labels and pull them in if they feel good. And I suppose I'd also say at the end of that,
Kelly Berry (29:06) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (29:22)
No label is okay as well. Just rocking up being who you are in the world and being open -minded about the choices that you're able to make.
Kelly Berry (29:33)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. I really like the way that you talked about your brand is kind of drinking less. It's not like alcohol -free. It's drinking less. And the mindfulness of it, I think to go back to the numbing conversation and the feelings, really being mindful of the times when you want a drink and stopping, even if you still decide to have a drink, stopping to figure out why do I want to drink.
right now, what is, am I bored? Am I upset? Am I stressed? Am I overwhelmed? know, am I whatever it is and just noticing how am I feeling? Is this a pattern? Like, is there something else I can do? Like, you know, you read about like take a walk or, you know, take a bath or eat something or, you know, just do something different. But if you don't stop to think about it, you know, you'll just perpetuate
the habit or the numbing action or whatever that is. So being mindful can be about like choosing what you're drinking and how often, but it can also be why you're stopping to have that drink as well.
Sarah Williamson (30:45)
Yeah, I think this is such a huge part of that learning exercise that educating yourself about yourself and what are we here for if it isn't to do that type of learning and that kind of growth. One of the tools I quite often share with my clients is to use the acronym HALT. It's quite often used in nutrition.
Sarah Williamson (31:14)
circles. The HALT stands for Hungry, Angry, Lonely and Tired. And those very often are for big drivers towards either emotional eating or drinking the other numbing activities. And I used to keep a sticky note stuck inside the cupboard where we keep most of our food and drink that had HALT written down the side of it and obviously HALT, you know, the idea of stopping.
Kelly Berry (31:26)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (31:44)
for a moment and thinking about it, that pause is so important. So often that driver for having a drink in that earlier evening period where what we might be thinking about is changing gear. So we might be thinking about going from the working day into the evening. This is the moment that my brain is trying to tell me about perhaps relaxing a bit or picking up evening activities with the kids or
Kelly Berry (31:44)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (32:13)
cooking dinner or whatever, you might be really hungry because actually the last time you remembered twee was hours ago at lunchtime. What about if you set a timer on your phone for 3pm or 4pm every afternoon to make sure you have a really nutritious protein filled snack and a litre of water? And actually what that then does at 5 o 'clock, 6 o 'clock is go a really long way to
what we might call a craving at that point for a glass of wine, when what you're actually really desperate for is something to drink and your body could have been better fuelled at that point. And certainly I think the angry, the lonely, those kinds of emotions that might rise at that time of day, particularly for women, these are difficult to get a bit of a handle on. Perhaps, you know, we haven't shared.
Kelly Berry (32:53)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (33:12)
about the things in our day that have really made us bubble over. the loneliness, the loneliness for me was a massive driver for drinking. And I never ever wanted to talk about it. wouldn't, know, five years ago, you and I would not been having this conversation out loud. I didn't ever want to be dismissed. I didn't want any of my friends to challenge my feelings of loneliness. I thought that they would say to me, but
You live with your lovely husband and your lovely kids. You've got loads of friends. You've got a job with fabulous colleagues. Of course you're not lonely. didn't want to have that, but I was at the time feeling a massive empty and loneliness, a real void and finding the activities that address the feeling that you are having is really important. So.
Kelly Berry (33:52)
Mm -hmm.
Thank you.
Sarah Williamson (34:07)
We can think of all of these amazing distraction activities. And I would also advocate for writing yourself a great list, you know, make sure that you've got a go to so you don't have to think about it too hard. Are the distractions going to be a walk around the block, a meditation track, 10 minutes of yoga, phoning a friend, having a bath. don't know, you know, come up with lists, but you need to be careful about matching.
Kelly Berry (34:29)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (34:34)
the right thing into tackling the emotion that's going on for you. So in my example of feeling incredibly lonely, if I borrowed somebody else's idea of having a bath instead of a glass of wine, all I have then done when I get out of the bath is actually have a bath and then I'm just wet and lonely instead of lonely.
Unless I was taking a handful of friends in the bus, which I wasn't. So you have to be really careful about listening to other people's good ideas about how you're going to handle something unless they are really going to support what's underneath, what's going on for you personally. And particularly, think, you know, coming to the end of that HALT, that acronym, the tiredness piece is so important because
Kelly Berry (35:10)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (35:29)
Of course we get to five, six o 'clock in the evening and our day has been full on perhaps and other people, you know, we just required then to carry on giving our resources in a different way. What are the ways that you can really, without sort of off into a bigger conversation that might involve, you know, self care activities, I'm talking about something different from that, you know, how are you actually building your life?
Kelly Berry (35:43)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (35:58)
so that you do not end up in that perpetually depleted space. And know as well of course that alcohol will always be contributing to that perpetually depleted state if you are always having that glass of wine, even if it's only one, every evening. You are never giving your body the full opportunity to sleep really well and rest overnight and get fully recharged on your normal battery.
Kelly Berry (36:03)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm
Sarah Williamson (36:28)
alcohol absolutely will always inhibit your sleep even if it is only one glass. So just how much better you do begin to feel with a stretch of sobriety behind you because all of that cell regeneration, all of that deep sleep you're doing suddenly happens on a whole other level and feels so much better.
Kelly Berry (36:29)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. So we'll come back to that in a little bit when we talk about like how you work with people and what that looks like. But so say somebody has decided, you know, OK, I want to make a change or whether it's full stop like you did or some somewhere in between. What are some of their like real fears? I know you said like loneliness, miserable, you know, like what?
What prevents people from making the decision or obstacles or anything like that?
Sarah Williamson (37:26)
Yeah, and certainly, I think really high up on the list is other people's judgments, we get really hung up on what other people will think of us if we make this choice. So that's always such a good one to have a conversation around right in the beginning. And certainly, I think that an element of this is around test driving as well.
because it's really easy to think that other people are more interested in us than they actually are. And we use that as an excuse. And, you know, I would tell you that people in the past have definitely, you know, done that thing to me or go on, just have one, you know, you'd be boring unless you just have one drink. Other people do not care what you're drinking as soon as they have got two drinks inside of them. So...
Kelly Berry (37:56)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (38:18)
If there is a bit of discomfort at the beginning of the evening, it generally is right at the beginning of the evening when perhaps your willpower is high, you're feeling good about your choice, just know that whatever is going on for other people generally fades pretty quickly. And it is true to say that other people, or certainly it is true of my experience, other people in the early days would ask me about my choice to run this experiment for myself.
and would then tell me all of the reasons as to why they were fine with drinking the amount that they were drinking, which I never asked them about, but they used that opportunity to really justify, you know, but I only drink on Friday, Saturdays and Sundays, and I only drink red wine, and that's really good for you or whatever the thing might be that they might be telling you. So I think
Kelly Berry (38:57)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Sarah Williamson (39:13)
for a lot of people, there are two different types of fear as well right at the beginning. One is the fear of failure. What if, you know, I say I'm going to have a month off alcohol and then I make it to 15 days and I find that this is just too hard and so I have a drink on day 15 and then I've got to be okay with the feeling of first of all, I tried to do something and it was too hard and
What if I can't even do this, then is my problem even bigger than the problem that I thought I had? Bear in mind all problems are relative, I use that word lightly in this context. And also the fear of success is quite frightening. What if I set out to do this and then I alienate myself from friends or I find myself living a different life that I didn't expect to and that might be uncomfortable and it might lead me to places.
Kelly Berry (39:47)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (40:09)
that I never expected. So that's quite a tricky one as well to unpick a bit. I think certainly there are all kinds of questions around, but what will I do at that wedding that's in the diary in the summer? What will I do at that music festival? What about Christmas Day when we always have champagne in the morning? What about that mimosa date that I go on with my girlfriends? There's a lot of what aboutery that goes on where
Kelly Berry (40:13)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (40:39)
whether we call it a stalling tactic or not, it actually is just the reality of life. There will never be a time where you and I look at our diaries together and say, look, there's nothing booked until 2026. I think I'll book my experiment then. I won't do anything, I won't socialise. That's never gonna happen. There is always only today or
Kelly Berry (40:56)
And he'll
Sarah Williamson (41:06)
there is the thing that you're gonna plan for hard and fast right now, and you're gonna put it into your diary, and you're gonna operate one of two ways. You're either gonna furiously plan your diary around it, or you are going to take it with you into your diary and put in the structures and the resources that you need to be successful with working around it. Yeah, those are some of the bigger things that come up, certainly.
Kelly Berry (41:26)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, so I shared with you, I put a post out on Instagram to see if I could get any listener questions. And I think one of them fits in here with this conversation. Do people have fears? Like what if my partner isn't on the same page with me or my husband or my wife or, say you are in this group of friends, it does everything together. How do people handle?
Those conversations, the change in the relationship dynamic, what does that look like?
Sarah Williamson (41:58)
Something that I did unintentionally, and I now look back on and thank a past version of myself for, is that I never ever sold what I was doing as any kind of drudgery or punishment to myself. The close friends that I have that I was saying, right, I'm just going to have this, I'm not going to drink for the next year, I'm just going to run it as an experiment, see how it goes.
feel great about doing this. I'm excited about doing this. I'm sure there's going to be some stuff that comes up that feels uncomfortable or challenging, but I'm really going into this feeling full hearted. I'm expecting people to support me and be alongside me. And not that you have to sell your choice in any particular way, but I was not saying to anyone around me, yes, I think this is going to be
absolutely awful. think this is going to be horrific. So I think there's a certain amount that you can even though I might have been running that narrative in my own head. I think there's an amount that you can do for yourself to help other people see where you would like them to be positioned around you in terms of friendship groups. So my husband drank while I was drinking, drank while I was not drinking.
Kelly Berry (42:54)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (43:16)
drinks now while I am not drinking and we have certainly had to find a couple of new different ways of doing some things. So first out I would say to anybody else, if you're making this decision for yourself, you need to make this decision for yourself and yourself only.
There might be joy along the road if you get other people come on board with you, whether they are friends, family, partners, whatever, but they will never be able to have their choice made for them by you. So I certainly in the early days said to my husband a couple of times, I told him upfront that I was intending to do it for a year. And in that first January, I said to him, will you join me to do at least dry January?
Kelly Berry (43:50)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (44:07)
And bearing in mind he had done dry January's previously, he said, no, I don't think I'm going to do dry January this year, because, you know, there's whatever things in the diary. And so I felt a bit deflated, I suppose, because I thought at least he started off with me. But I didn't ask him any further than that. That was kind of the end of it. And
I suppose during this four and a half years, there have been times where he's gone out with his friends and got completely, you know, got drunk, had a fab time doing whatever things they are doing together. And that is fine. That doesn't have an impact on our relationship. The times that I've found it most tricky has been if we, it would be an example like going out.
Kelly Berry (44:40)
Thank
Sarah Williamson (44:58)
to a friend's house for dinner, where I might be driving anyway, and he might have, I don't know, let's say a handful of drinks that then ends up putting, and it will be him, but it will also be the other people around the table who are drinking, puts you on a different, I suppose I can only describe it as a level, different, the things that you find funny when you're drunk, what you don't.
Kelly Berry (45:25)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (45:26)
funny when you haven't got a drink inside you that that slightly elevated set of feelings, which also of course run the other way. They are not always feelings where people can get alcohol is a depressant, you know, once it's in your system pulled down the other way. So I would say it's those odd occasions where perhaps we might feel a bit of a disconnect. But in general terms, if the two of us are out for dinner, or the two of us are at home together,
Kelly Berry (45:35)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (45:55)
there is no impact because we won't be drinking anyway. And I suppose over the last few years, and maybe this is an age thing as much as it is anything else, we get loads of pleasure from being out long distance walking together or, you know, doing particular things with our kids in which alcohol was never the focus anyway. So what we probably do is spend less time.
Kelly Berry (46:00)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (46:24)
in situations and settings where we would drink, I would say that there's a whole scale here. Some people will find it incredibly difficult to be with a partner who is drinking, whether that is any tiny amount or any huge amount, and some people who it doesn't bother at all. And really the only way that you will find out is to go into it, have the conversation with the person you love.
Kelly Berry (46:46)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (46:52)
about what your intentions are for yourself and see where that conversation leads you. And I think just going into that conversation with the aim of learning about each other and you giving your information, but also wanting to hear what their stuff is as well. And ultimately I would say to you, if I were using myself as an example, my husband's motivations for drinking and my motivations for drinking were different anyway.
Kelly Berry (47:00)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (47:22)
my husband was never drinking for the same reasons that I was. So definitely it comes with complexities. Definitely it does.
Kelly Berry (47:23)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Did you experience like a shift in your social circle, your friends, and what was that like?
Sarah Williamson (47:42)
Yeah, so I would describe one friend as a casualty of the situation and looking back on it, I'm okay with it because actually it turned out what we had was a relationship that was based upon sharing wine together and now I'm completely, you know, that I don't have a void, I don't have a gap in my life.
for that person. And we didn't have any kind of falling out or anything. was just a suddenly it looked really stark, where we could not find anything, any common ground that involved copying together or walking together or, you know, anything that we might build a new foundation of relationship on. So one casualty. I have a really, really one of my oldest university friends.
that I would say our relationship, you know, four and a half years on has shifted to a place that we haven't quite yet found our firm footing on. And she is somebody who I love and adore. But essentially what this boils down to is, you know, this is obviously my interpretation. She's not here in this interview. I think
really what it boils down to is she can't understand the decision that I made because it just looks too extreme for her. I think she would agree with that. You know it's always difficult isn't it when you think of what somebody else is thinking is she's the same person who struggles with me being vegetarian so it might be you know tied up in that kind of thing. My main friendship group so these are the girls who live locally to me have got the same
Kelly Berry (49:12)
Mm
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (49:31)
age group of kids as I have who I spend quite a lot of physical time with. What has happened over time and bear in mind there was a global pandemic thrown in there as well, is actually a move away from drinking in a bar or pub to doing activities that actually all together feel a bit better for mind, body and soul. So we spend a lot of time together now.
Kelly Berry (49:42)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (49:59)
out on a weekend walk together involving a coffee shop or a tea shop or you know doing the kinds of activities that actually feel like they're really benefiting us and I would also throw into that the idea that we have become much closer. What happens when you were for a big night out with your girlfriends, well I speak for myself here, is you have these big conversations
Kelly Berry (50:10)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (50:26)
about some hilarious stuff and some deep and meaningful stuff and all the stuff, all the kids and husbands and all the stuff in the middle. And then various people have blackouts and don't remember what, you know, wake up the next morning and don't know what. It's very often the thing that somebody will have been telling you something that was deep going on for them in that moment in their world. And really, although you might sit there in the room at the time listening,
and empathizing and helping them talk through their situation, you might well have forgotten about it or certain the elements of it the next morning. And what I would say about the way that we socialize now, the beauty of none of us being drunk in a situation like that is when somebody's having a rocky time, we're remembering all of it. And then the next time we see each other a couple of weeks later or a month later, or a WhatsApp check -in a couple of days later,
you're able to pick back up and go, you know, that tricky thing that's happening at work. Is that still going on for you? Is there anything I can do to help? Do you want to meet and have a quick coffee next week to talk about it? So I would say an unexpected benefit of not to drink anymore has been much deeper connections and relationships with people that I already thought stuff was good with. And that's been such a joy and a real pleasure.
Kelly Berry (51:31)
me.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that because even if you do remember, you just may not feel like it's safe to talk about when you aren't drinking or that this person wants to talk about it again. Yeah, that's that's a really good point. I've been a part of a lot of conversations that have have happened and have been really deep and important and then vaporize. And it's probably for all the reasons that you're talking about, like nobody
remembers the same version of it or just maybe that comfort level like that true deep connection you just don't feel it unless you're drinking and that's really unfortunate.
Sarah Williamson (52:30)
is so unfortunate. And that beautiful thing as well about if you were walking with your girlfriends next week and you were talking as you were walking, when your eyes are faced forward and you're not, you know, eyeballing somebody, you actually give somebody a lot more freedom to think about the thing, you know, and to, I don't know, let your eyes gaze towards the horizon, the sky, the floor in front, whatever.
that opportunity to talk things through without feeling like you are being lasered in on the idea that actually, and of course going for a long walk as well, you start off talking about something, then you talk about 50 different things in the middle, you've still got the lovely opportunity to circle back and say, you know, in between times I've been turning such and such over in my head, what about...
Kelly Berry (53:07)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (53:26)
this way of looking at it or whatever it is. And I wonder if there's a part, you know, the place that alcohol has in our society, where intentionally, we keep each other a bit numb, because vulnerability isn't necessarily a comfortable place to sit. So if we are, you know, really superficial and surface level, and somebody drops some kind of bomb, you know, about stuff that's going on.
Kelly Berry (53:28)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (53:56)
in their life, we give ourselves the out to be able to say next time, my God, I didn't mean to talk about that, you know, that was the drink talking gloss over it, pretend that never happened. And everyone what we take a sigh of relief and say, thank God for that. I thought that was going to require some time, love and attention. Well, turns out, guess what? Friendship groups in which there is time, love and attention are the safest places to be. How glorious if they
Kelly Berry (54:08)
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (54:26)
happen not to involve alcohol.
Kelly Berry (54:28)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. And this is a whole nother topic for a different podcast conversation, but you know, like we are all suffering from a loneliness epidemic. And if we continue to have surface level friendship, surface level conversations, you know, that's not going to change. And we are going to be on our own figuring out problems on our own, all that, loneliness. Yeah. Yeah. That is a really, a really interesting aspect of that. we are
We're coming up on time. have a couple more things that I want to talk to you about and make sure that you get to talk about the work that you do. So if somebody is like, I want to start making a change. What are some just like really practical steps that they can do to start drinking less?
Sarah Williamson (55:15)
Yeah, yeah. At the time when I made my decision that I was going to do this year alcohol free, I had a massive stash of wine in the kitchen cupboard and bottles and bottles of half drunk gin and vodka and all sorts. I took all of the wine round to a neighbour's house, who was also a friend, and said to her, can I just stash this or yours? just need it out of the, you know, it wasn't alcohol that my husband drank. I just need it out of the way.
And what then happened throughout that year was each time she went to a barbecue or so, would say to her, take one of those bottles like it, you know, I never had to think about, I didn't ever have to use any mental energy around it. So I would say, take the stuff out of your eye line that you don't need to take up any brain space with. My husband drinks lager and lager was never, never my bag. So it doesn't bother me having that in the house. The gin, I poured some down the drain and I gave
Kelly Berry (55:57)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (56:13)
some away, just took it off the table. I think for some people it's really, really useful and helpful to have a way of tracking what they're doing. There's an app called I am sober that you can count your alcohol free days on. There's an app called Try Dry, which you mark on a calendar, which days you've had no alcohol, which days you've had one or two drinks. And so a bit of a traffic light system on there. if you were looking.
Kelly Berry (56:42)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (56:43)
cutting down how many days per week you were drinking. That would be a great one to use. On my website I have a downloadable habit tracker and what I started off doing in the first year when I was cutting down was I had a colour coding system for colouring days when I didn't drink, days when I had one drink or a day if I had a complete fall overboard. And also that is a great habit tracker to use if you're going alcohol free because you're just
constantly giving yourself that visual reminder if you're somebody creative, you know, to keep ticking that off or indeed use your paper calendar or a notes app. I would also say it's a great idea in the early days to get really clear on what you are wanting to achieve with this. So have a think about what you really value in life and how and whether or not the choices you are making are lining up with those values.
Kelly Berry (57:16)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (57:39)
I had a big long list that I kept on an app on my phone, well I've still got on an app on my phone, my reasons why I wanted my one year alcohol free to be successful and I listed things like I wanted my kids to see it was possible to live a really happy life without alcohol, where alcohol wasn't a part of it. It is, we can tell our kids anything that we like no matter what age they are.
And most of parenting is always going to come down to modeling. So I didn't ever want to turn around one day and be surprised where I was watching my kids drink themselves into oblivion and having that horrible thought that I might have shown them how to do that. So I've written this list that included stuff around wanting to choose this successful choice and be successful, my kids, my health.
Kelly Berry (58:26)
Mm
Sarah Williamson (58:36)
my both physical and emotional, I wanted to lessen my risk around different types of cancers. I think this list probably had about 12 or 15 things on it. And now looking back, and I could never have told you this at the time, but looking back, what I couldn't have been brave enough to say is actually I really cared about myself. I really, really wanted to do something that felt like it was going to be a big shift.
You know, I could have my supplements on the side in my kitchen for weeks and weeks and forget to take them every single day. Same with a green smoothie. Same with all of the passing days that I didn't remember to do yoga. So often life is, we think doing good things is about adding stuff in, but actually what an amazing impact you can have taking one, just one thing out, not in.
Kelly Berry (59:26)
Okay.
Sarah Williamson (59:30)
So I'd have a really careful look at that if it was early days for you and then I would really recommend going down the rabbit hole of what are the books that you can read. There's a whole genre of books called Quitlit which range from the deeply scientific to the beautifully memoir -y. There are amazing podcasts, there are some brilliant documentaries and films to watch, all of which will fuel your enthusiasm and your joy.
for this project. So those are the main kind of early day things I would say. Immerse yourself, educate yourself, look for the other people out there who might inspire you and follow really closely behind them.
Kelly Berry (59:59)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, and we are so fortunate in the past few years how much more popular the topic has become, how many more resources, how many more people on Instagram are talking about it, modeling it. So it is a really fortunate time if this is something that people are thinking about doing, there are a ton of resources. So I did mention I had a couple listener questions. I have two more that I wanna ask you to kind of piggyback on the things that you just said. So I know you said...
you you wanted to improve your health, lessen your risk of certain kinds of cancers. One of the questions was like, did you have blood work done when you were drinking and now being sober or have any of your clients to see like, what is the impact to your health from removing alcohol?
Sarah Williamson (1:00:55)
So I was one of those people who never wanted to have a conversation with my doctor about alcohol I don't know if you have the same there but here there'll always be a questionnaire about you know, how many units per week and I was one of the classic liars, you know I would think about what I drank and obviously fill in half the amount So I recognize that I've never been truthful in the first place and let me tell you
Kelly Berry (1:01:05)
How many
Sarah Williamson (1:01:19)
the flip side, the beautiful thing is now filling in any form where I get to write zero alcohol. I kind of almost want somebody to give me a trophy or a medal at the, you know, I want to go, look, check me out. Where do I get my award for this? It hasn't happened yet, I'm here to tell you. So no, I didn't have my own blood work done. What I just know for sure is this choice that I've made for myself, regardless.
Kelly Berry (1:01:32)
person.
Yeah.
Sarah Williamson (1:01:46)
of whatever metrics I may or may not have had is a great choice. Alcohol is a toxin, it is a poison. And not putting that in your body is always going to be a better way forward. Yes, so my clients, and it tends to be US based rather than UK ones who do have blood work done, we have conversations about, know, timeframes and where, you know, how quickly things improve.
Kelly Berry (1:01:57)
Mm -hmm.
Mm
Sarah Williamson (1:02:13)
you know, the liver is an amazing organ in your body doing incredible work. So recognising as well and certainly it's quite, you can be quite quick to pull out the physical benefits of not drinking. So you can very often quickly be ticking off that, my sleep's really improved, my skin's improved, my hair looks glossy and shinier. You know, suddenly it's not so difficult getting to the gym.
first thing in the morning, whatever these things are, but actually the emotional impact comes really quick as well. All of that stuff that I thought was going on for me around brain fog and around low level anxiety and things that I thought, you know, these hormonal impacts actually turned out once you take that fuel out that you keep adding to the fire out, these things naturally become better quicker and
Kelly Berry (1:02:47)
you
Mm
Sarah Williamson (1:03:09)
And I suppose in there, would also say I had breast cancer last year. And I really felt like that was a bit of a, I suppose, a cruel twist of fate because I kind of felt like here I am, know, four and a half at the time, let's say three and a half years of having not had a drink. I thought I was doing myself a massive favor.
Kelly Berry (1:03:22)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (1:03:32)
I suppose I wasn't naive enough to ever think I was buying myself some kind of guarantee. But how much better position are you in being diagnosed with breast cancer, being a non -drinker in the first place? Most definitely you are. And breast cancer is one of the cancers really attributable to drinking. As women heading into middle age, one of the greatest things we can do for our health is not to drink or to drink...
Kelly Berry (1:03:36)
Mm -hmm.
anything.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Sarah Williamson (1:04:00)
probably less. So I think all of these health pieces, I think that thing around, you know, in medical settings, a lot of the conversations we can have are based upon what the medical professional sitting in front of us, what their relationship is with alcohol. So it might be that you sit in front of somebody, a consultant who is a massive
wine drinker at the weekends but because he's drinking fancy wine from Italy doesn't think it counts in the same way as somebody who's drinking vodka out of a brown paper bag but it is all the same ingredient. So yes the medical thing is certainly a big part of the work.
Kelly Berry (1:04:42)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't know that you had had breast cancer. Are you in remission or? Yeah.
Sarah Williamson (1:04:54)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had two sets of surgery last year and radiotherapy. So I'm being kept a close eye on, but everything looks good. I feel really, really well on the back of it. So I'm counting lucky stars. Yeah. Knowing it was, you know, got caught just at the right point. So yeah, feeling really fortunate through it all.
Kelly Berry (1:05:02)
Yeah.
That's so great. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, well that's great to hear. Very scary for sure. So the last listener question that I wanted to ask, and this is a question that I've had and have kind of battled with in different stages of my life. What's your stance on mocktails or all of the like alcohol -free beverages now? Because I think some people can feel like it's cheating or it's, you know, like if I...
Sarah Williamson (1:05:20)
Yeah.
Kelly Berry (1:05:45)
If I still have to have something like, what does that say about me? So what do you think about mocktails and how does that play into how you talk about it with your clients?
Sarah Williamson (1:05:54)
I'm here for all of it. I love the idea. I think very much for me in the early days of choosing to cut down what I was drinking, there was an element of enjoying the ceremony of the drink. Where you get that, perhaps in my case, a big heavy crystal cut glass with a slice of lemon, the chink chink as you put the cubes in, a good slug of gin, the tonic chilled out of the fridge. Part of that almost felt ceremonial ritual. A part of that was the bit of the day in which I went, and took a deep breath, leant back on the kitchen counter and had a really good slug of that drink. And changing the ingredient is a massive game changer. So all you do is switch that gin to alcohol -free gin. And 90 % then of what you wanted to do, have done in the drink is done. I'm a huge proponent of the alcohol -free drinks. This market is exploding and that's for a reason. Exploding because more and more people are going this way. I was never a lager drinker when I was a drinker, but I've just come back from a holiday where there were some really nice 0 % alcohol, fruit -based lager drinks. So I had a couple of those on holiday because there's something about putting yourself in a herd situation where other people are doing that thing that looks like kicking back, flicking the top off the bottle, and you want to be a part of that, you don't want to feel alienated, of course they're a purist. That gives it a negative connotation. There are people who absolutely say this is not for me, I want a total clean slate, I am somebody who is whatever their label is and drinking, regardless of whether it is the real thing or pretend thing, I want no part of it. And if that feels right to you, absolutely that's what you do. But there are, for me, times where I want the fancy glass, I don't want to be offered a drink that looks like a kid's drink in a glass that looks like a kid's glass. I would like to have the same experience as the group of people that I'm out with and the ingredients of my drink, I want that to matter very little. I want it to taste delicious, look delicious, be part of the celebration. think that thing that we do when we're on holiday and we put our glass of champagne in front of the sunset to set off that picture, you know, I want to live the kind of life that looks joyful and happy and full of celebration the same as anyone else does.
Kelly Berry (1:08:51)
Mm -hmm.
Sarah Williamson (1:08:51)
explore the mocktail recipe. There's amazing places now that are making so much more effort recognizing that they're missing a trick unless they're focusing on this part of their customer base that doesn't drink and they need to do everything actually to widen their appeal to a market that's only going to get bigger and that's a great thing for all
Kelly Berry (1:08:54)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love the couple of things that you said there, but you know, the ceremonial part of it, you know, there is a lot of that that is just kind of like the signal, like here's this shift in my day or, you know, whatever I'm transitioning from this time to this time. And the alcohol is something that we've made a part of that, but it doesn't have to be, you know, it can be some other things. And then the other part is,
you know, there is a part of, maybe it goes back to the fear or, you know, whatever, just being left out or not being able to be a part of the experience. But these drinks are around and available so you can share one at the same time as everyone else. yeah. Yeah, well, we are up on time. This has been great. I think I could go on and on and on. I want...
to give you a chance to talk about who you work with, how you work with people, how people can find you and connect with you. Yeah, so tell us about that.
Sarah Williamson (1:10:12)
Yeah, great. Thank you. So having worked as an addiction professional for many, years in a business setting, I left my role three years ago now and I had set up my own business by the time I got that good stretch of sobriety behind me. So my business is www .drinklesslivebetter .com. You can find the website there. I'm on each of the social media
places as Drink Less, Live Better also. I have a podcast that is five to eight minute episodes long and those really are intended as what you might listen to at five o 'clock on a Thursday or a Friday night where you're feeling perhaps a bit twitchy about shall I shan't I pour a glass of wine I know I'll just have a listen to Sarah in my ear for five minutes for a bit of a pep talk and the book is also Drink Less, Live Better.
I predominantly work with midlife people around their drinking habits. I only work one to one now. So I've got a bit of work that I do for some charities in a group setting, but my work with my clients is just one to one. And I tend to work with people either on a month long program, or more commonly a three month program, we do a 90 day piece of work together.
Kelly Berry (1:11:32)
Thanks.
Sarah Williamson (1:11:34)
which gives a beautiful period of time then to really get to the nub of some of the stuff that's been going on, some of the stuff that has brought them to where they are, their relationship with alcohol now, and really then work towards some solid goals, building in lots of accountability, lots of really hopeful, joyful stuff around it, and it is just the work I love. I'm so happy and lucky to do it.
Kelly Berry (1:11:57)
Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for sharing today. I will include all of those links in the show notes so people can find you. I really, I know we talked about this before too, but I just love the way that you talk about alcohol, alcohol -free, how you made your decisions. think it just feels very approachable. And I think that that's so important when this is such a big decision and a lot of people are thinking a lot about it. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you.
Sarah Williamson (1:12:26)
Thank you, it's been lovely today, so nice to chat to you.
Kelly Berry is a strategic business leader and business coach. She is known for her operational excellence and her ability to drive growth and results across multiple industries.
She is also hosting her own podcast, Life Intended.
