Authenticity in leadership means showing up as your true self, being genuine in your interactions, and staying true to your values. Lisa Rigoli, with her extensive experience, underscores that authenticity is not just a trait but a strategic advantage. Leaders who are authentic create a culture of openness and trust. This starts with understanding oneself, which Lisa achieves through the Enneagram assessment.
The Enneagram is a tool that helps leaders understand their motivations, blind spots, and triggers. For example, as a Type 2, the Helper, I know my blind spot is disempowering others by trying to solve their problems. By being aware of this, I can focus on listening more and empowering my team. This self-awareness is crucial for leaders to navigate transitions authentically and effectively.
In times of change, it's easy for leaders to become disconnected from their teams. Lisa’s approach ensures that leaders maintain a human-centric culture by focusing on trust and communication. During our conversation, she shared a strategy from a recent offsite retreat where the team used a "safe word"—pineapple—to signal when someone needed to voice a concern. This practice created a safe space for open and honest dialogue, essential for building trust.
Trust is the foundation of any successful team, especially during transitions. It allows team members to feel safe making mistakes, challenging ideas, and being vulnerable. Lisa emphasizes that building trust involves creating an environment where every team member feels heard and valued.
One effective method Lisa uses is facilitating offsite retreats to align the new leader with their team. These retreats are designed to establish common language and understanding, ensuring that everyone is on the same page. They also help the team bond, fostering a collaborative environment.
Change can be daunting, but it's also an opportunity for growth. Lisa shared her personal story of transitioning from a corporate role to running her own business. Her journey is a testament to the power of embracing change with a positive mindset. She encourages leaders to see transitions as a chance to innovate and improve, rather than something to fear.
Leadership transitions don't have to be periods of uncertainty and stress. By embracing authenticity and building trust, leaders can navigate these changes smoothly, fostering a resilient and thriving workforce. Lisa Rigoli’s insights provide a valuable roadmap for any leader facing a transition.
If you’re navigating a leadership change or looking to enhance your leadership skills, I highly recommend reaching out to Lisa and her team at Element of Change. Their expertise can help you transform challenges into opportunities for growth.
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Kelly Berry (00:02): Hi, friends, and welcome back to Life Intended. I'm your host, Kelly Berry. Life Intended is a podcast that explores what it means to be true to yourself and live an authentic and purposeful life. Each episode explores my guests' version of personal growth, self-discovery, and the pursuit of becoming the best version of themselves, as well as how to find the joy in the journey. Today's guest is leadership and HR expert, Lisa Rigoli. Through her company, Element of Change, Lisa and her team specialize in accelerating trust, reducing turnover, and kick-starting growth plans within 90 days for organizations undergoing leadership transitions. With more than 15 years of experience in HR and leadership, Lisa has a proven track record of developing environments that drive innovation and create a thriving and resilient workforce. Lisa understands the uncertainties that accompany leadership changes. From questioning trust in new leaders to concerns about restarting growth timelines. While HR and operators may lack the bandwidth to focus on retaining talent post-leader departure, Lisa and her team step in to address the turnover they can control. Their distinct approach to leadership and team building fosters human-centric cultures and collaborative dynamics, ensuring cohesive and productive environments where everyone can thrive during transitions. I'm really excited about what Lisa is going to share with us all today. So welcome to the show, Lisa. That was a great introduction, a lot about you professionally. So tell us a little bit more about Lisa as a person.
Lisa Rigoli (03:12): Yeah, first, thank you for the intro and the tee-up for me. But on a personal note, I am a first-generation Jamaican American. So my parents were actually born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica and moved to South Florida to start a family. And they picked the city of Boca Raton. And I remember as a little kid, I would say, mom, I'm like out of all the cities in Florida, how did you pick Boca? And she said two things. She said they have great schools and all things happen for a reason. And she's right because my husband is actually my middle school best friend. So Jay and I, yeah, Jay and I have known each other through middle school and high school, never dated. We actually didn't date until way after college. But now we have two little girls, a four-year-old and a three-year-old, Gianna and Isabelle, going on 14 and 13, so send help. So when I'm not doing the things that you said so nicely in my bio, I am definitely a mom, true and true. I love being a mom, I love being a wife, and I love my family, because we started later in life, and it's a fun season that we're in.
Kelly Berry (04:09): Yeah, yeah, I can relate to you on that, the starting later in life. There's a lot, I think, of blessings in that as a mom and just kind of like, you know, the way that you approach things and, you know, maybe even appreciate things. So, yeah, it's fun.
Lisa Rigoli (04:33): I couldn't agree with you because I know when we talk about things like intended and being purposeful and authentic, I joke that having kids later in life keeps me looking young because I get aged differently as younger and I'm like, I'll take it all day. So thank you. But to your point, there's a lot of things even in my business that I will say no to because the season I'm in right now is yes, I want a thriving business, but I also want to make sure that I'm present for my kids. And sometimes my colleagues are like, are you really leaving? And I'm like, yep, I was very intentional with starting later in life. So I would not miss out on these moments. So I don't know, I just thought I would have that.
Kelly Berry (05:11): Yeah, yeah, that's great. I think that is a really good transition into talking about what you're doing now in your company and how that came to be.
Lisa Rigoli (05:22): Yeah. So my background, as you shared, I've been in the HR space for actually 17 years. So I started off at Target and then I started at Davida. And while I was at Davida for seven years, Davida is a kidney dialysis company, healthcare. I actually started my own business. So for six of those years, I actually had my own coaching business on the side because I knew one day, I didn't know what day it would be, but I knew one day I would take my side business to my main book of business. And in late 2022, while I was doing my thing as an HR leader, there were rumors of a reorg happening. And in the corporate space, it's common. Like you hear about reorgs, you hear about restructures all the time. But I think in 2022, the reason why I wasn't phased by the rumors, at the time I was over eight states, I had 5,000 employees that were rolled up underneath me. And in my mind, I was like, I'm good. Like there's no way my market's going to be impacted. Like we take up such a big portion of the organization. My boss, who was a group vice president at the time, ended up resigning. And again, it's corporate. I didn't think anything. I was like, people come and go, things of that nature. She left on a Friday. That Monday, I got the phone call from the COO that my market was being dissolved. And Kelly, it was literally like the rug got pulled underneath me from so many reasons, because I was also grieving the loss of my boss that just left and now hearing this news. But what was interesting is that they wanted me to actually step in. And even though I knew my role was eliminated, they needed me to help with the reorg. So now that for three months, I'm helping people either take a package or navigate to a different team within the business unit. And I'm like crying, but then having these calls, hanging up a call and crying and really not knowing what next would be. And I remember just sitting one night on the couch with my husband and like just crying. And he's like, he's like, I don't want to come off insensitive, but he's like, you've always wanted to take your side business to your main book of business. He's like, to me, this is like the perfect situation for you. You're such a connector that the business ended. So no one's coming behind you to backfill you and take over your team. Like it's done. Like everyone's starting like a fresh new chapter. And it was in that moment that I was like, you're right. You are so right. Like I've, I prayed for this. I vision board for this. Why not? And talk about how. You all things happen for a reason because the day that I finished up and they offered me another position, I said no. The very next day they called me and asked me to stay on as a consultant. So I started my business and I switched from B to C to B to B with landing my first large organization, which was the company I worked for at the time for seven years. So it's what I do now. It's why my mission statement so pat. I'm so passionate because I actually now help other organizations that are going through a reorg. How do you really bring the human component back and make sure people feel seen.
Kelly Berry (08:18): Mm-hmm. Yeah, so why or I guess when you started your business and it was a side business, you know, what was your thought process then? Was it to make it your career like it is now or was it just, you know, something you had contacts who could use your help so you were helping them? You know, what did that look like?
Lisa Rigoli (08:41): Yeah, my thought process back then, actually my Instagram handle used to be the corporate side hustler. That's what I called myself. And I was really passionate for those first six years of me running a business of helping other corporate women start their side business. Like what were they doing in order to actually create their exit strategy? I think being in the HR space for so long, I knew that our roles were not guaranteed. I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs that are like, but when you have your job, you have the stable income and like the risk we take as an entrepreneur is that we don't know when our income is coming in. And I would actually like to argue that even in a corporate setting, you're not guaranteed that you're going to have that job for a long time. So I was very passionate about helping specifically women leaders figure out what their plan was going to be. And I helped coach them to really step into their superpower, the thing that they probably were doing all the time and never really realized what they were doing. How can they monetize that in a way that makes sense? And funny enough, I didn't realize that all the all the time I was doing that, I was actually leaning into my own superpower of what my business was going to evolve to later.
Kelly Berry (09:47): Yeah, I love that. I talked to somebody recently, I haven't published the podcast yet, but it's someone else who had been working in corporate roles and stepped out to start her own business. And I was just asking her, what's a piece of advice that you have for people who want to do that, but are just scared or they don't think it's possible for them? Her thing was do one thing every single day that moves you closer to that because you know, you can do it and it's inaction really that's the, I guess the nemesis to the plan. So, you know, this is probably an unexpected turn to this conversation, but talk to me a little bit about, you know, like how you coach people to do that, because I think so many people are interested, you know, in doing something on their own and just don't know where to start.
Lisa Rigoli (10:40): Yeah, I love where this question is going. And I guess the background or one thing that's coming to mind for me is I think we all have someone that's influencing us to be pulled to do it. Yes, there's this burning desire of wanting to start something, but there's also someone that we see from afar that's two steps ahead of us that we're like, man, if they're doing it, I want to do that. And for me, it was Jenna Kutcher. Do you follow Jenna Kutcher? Yeah. And I share that because Jenna Kutcher also started at Target. Same background. We both started off as interns. We both started off in the executive role. And when she said like, I bought this camera off Craigslist, she's like, I did this one action. I did this one thing and I started taking pictures on the side until my business became something. Look where she's now. And that's literally what I would share with any of the women I was coaching. I was like, Hey, even if you're not following a Jenna Kutcher. What's the one thing that you can lean into and who's the one person that you could probably test it with? And another person that's coming up to mind that you and I both know very well is Sara Wiles. And for anyone that's listening, Sara Wiles is this amazing entrepreneur that helps other VAs, virtual assistants, grow their business profitably. And one of the things that Sara preaches about is how do you start with your own community? Like when you're starting your business, don't think about how you're going to pitch it to the masses, but like look at your community and who you can offer your services to. That's literally what I was leaning into with these leadership women of if you want to start a coaching practice, if you wanted to start consulting, who could you do that with? One person, just find that one person that you can do it with who's in your community that you already have built trust with and start there. And it was amazing watching these women be like, my gosh, they said yes. And I'm talking about these are executive women that, started having imposter syndrome as they were leaning into this one step, but when they would have this one step, like the smile was almost like our children's smile of like, I can't believe I did it. Like, I can't believe I did the cartwheel mom. Like, you know what I mean? Like it was like, I can't believe that I'm taking these small actions that are like these, it felt huge, but it was a small action that with this big reward. So hopefully, hopefully that, does that resonate?
Kelly Berry (12:35): Yes. So I love that for a lot of reasons. One is, you know, we have for a long time, my husband and I have a business where we coach gym owners. And so our kind of like step one in how to grow your business has not been like how to create a social media presence or how to create a website. It has been like start with, we call it the 250 list. Like write down 250 people that you know. It's your first grade teacher. It's your middle school soccer coach. It's your plumber. You know, just write down all of these people and then figure out like who is your, who is what you do a good fit for and start there. You know, and I think people can get so overwhelmed because when they look at somebody like Jenna Kutcher or Sara Wiles who have this, you know, they have a lot figured out and they have a lot of years of doing you know, not what you see them doing now, but doing the things the more organic way. And so I think that people just get so overwhelmed. You know, I don't know how to start an email list and I don't know how to make a reel in X, Y, and Z, but it's the relationships that you already have that are going to create the platform for you to like a jumping off point. So I love that. And I, you know, I do love the looking at somebody who's like a couple of steps ahead because, especially when they are somebody that you at one time shared a lot of commonalities with because that lets you see that it's achievable and that you're really no different than they are. They just took those small steps to get where they are. Yeah, I love that.
Lisa Rigoli (14:47): And I, and I, I, one of the things I want to double down on what you're saying, cause I'm sure someone else is listening to this and thinking the same thing. Like, well, my gosh, Sara has so many followers and Jenna Kutcher, she's like in the millions. And I, I want to also like bring it back because I didn't just start following Jenna Kutcher. Like I was following Jenna Kutcher back in like 2012. So I shared that from like, she was legitimately two steps ahead of where I wanted. Like when she was first showing up on social media, she was, just quit Target, you know what I mean? mean? To your point, like I want to put things in perspective of sometimes we can get so enamored by someone, not realizing that there was still a journey for them to get to where they are. Like Sara, Jenna, me, I didn't wake up with this business, right? Like I'm seven years into the making of my business and I could probably even stretch it longer for like all the things that were happening before. But what I love in the very beginning, it was those first steps to your point. I didn't worry about my follower count. I didn't even have a website the first four years of my business. I just wanted to make sure that my community, that 250 lists that you're talking about, knew what I was passionate about and how did I just start there? And I'm so grateful because if I didn't take those small steps, I wouldn't be where I am today. Yeah.
Kelly Berry (16:01): Mm-hmm. Yes, yep. Those small steps, like you were talking about the smile that you see, you know, those just build confidence. Every single step is, you know, one more brick of the cathedral that tells you like you can get it done.
Lisa Rigoli (16:21): 100%. 100%.
Kelly Berry (16:23): Yeah, great. So let's kind of, I feel like we kind of went down that rabbit hole, but I want to talk a little bit more about, you know, your decision to go all in on your business. You know, what was, what were your apprehensions or fears at the time?
Lisa Rigoli (16:41): Yeah, complete transparency. My fear was would anyone actually really buy my services? Like that same fear I had when I started my side business of I don't even have a website. Who's going to take me seriously? The thought I had was who's going to take me seriously now that this is my main book of business? Like are people going to question like, why should I work with you knowing that this is now in some essence new territory, right? Because I went from B to C one-on-one coaching services to now I was pitching myself to large organizations and fear was realer than real. And there were two things that grounded me is that I focused on, again, my community. So like using that as a focal point, like I focused on the 250 people that knew me. I wasn't worried about casting this bigger net to people that didn't, I was actually reaching out to people that I worked with, people that saw me actually doing the thing. The only thing that was different is I wasn't getting paid by Davida and Target anymore. They were going to be the ones paying me. You know what I mean? That was one. And two, I share this because it's real and I think sometimes people don't talk about it. But one of the main reasons why I didn't also feel comfortable leaving prior to the rework is that in my mind, there wasn't enough stability coming in from my business for me to feel like, okay, I've had enough reps to see what like the ebbs and flows are. And I got a package. Like I was paid by Davida a good amount to make sure that, cause again, my role was eliminated. I didn't quit. It gave me the security, if you will, of all right, what can I test? What can I do? How can I be innovative knowing that the next few months I'm actually still having income coming in. And I share that because I, complete transparence, this might be polarizing, but there are some people out there that are like, go big, bet on yourself, take risks, don't worry, like get, go in the negative if you have to. And I actually view it differently of, I felt like the security of having some funds that were still coming in from a separation package allowed me to actually take bigger leaps and like bigger bats, if you will, because I was like, okay, if that doesn't work, I still have income coming in. I can try something again next month. I don't know. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, I like that too. I think I see those messages a lot, like, you know, bet on yourself. And while those things are important, I do feel like there is some, you know, sense of safety and security that is going to allow you to perform at your best. And, you know, it's like the scarcity mindset or operating like above or below the bar expanding or retracting. I think that you can easily get derailed from your mission and what you think that your unique gift to the world is when you are in this scarcity mindset or when it's do or die, you can make a lot of decisions that are not exactly in alignment with where you want to go. And the next thing you know, you are nowhere near where you want it to be.
Lisa Rigoli (19:52): 100%. I mean, even looking back on that first year, so 2023 would have been my first full year going all in on my own. And even though I had income still coming in from the separation package, I found myself saying yes to every opportunity that presented itself to me because of the fear factor of, I don't know when the yeses are going to stop. And there was a moment where I woke up in October, and I was spent, Kelly. I'm talking about I was tired. I was drained. Even though my heart was so, it was such a weird spot to be in because my heart was so full of I am doing it. Like I am making it work. But then at a cost of fear. And it was in this month in October that I was like, wait a minute, like what's happening here? Like, why did I feel that? And I had to take a moment back to like reflect on listen, what's allowing all these things to happen that I can replicate that versus step leaning into scarcity. And once I pivoted and really leaned into the power, like we talk about warm and hot leads, it's actually the power of community. Like when I think about all of my clients now that I have and the ones that I'm saying yes to are the people that I wanna work with. Those are the people that I know. And I feel like I'm going down a tangent, but that's like, that was what resonated the most for me of like to your point of scarcity, whether you have money coming in or not, scarcity is a real thing is basically what I wanna share.
Kelly Berry (21:23): Yeah. And you know, that's the difference in you ending up like today with the business that you want and you love and your team is growing. And the one that you get when you are saying yes to everything that takes you down this path that you didn't see coming. And you know, the next thing you know, you built yourself another job and you haven't built yourself another business. Yeah. Yeah.
Lisa Rigoli (21:48): Correct. That is correct.
Kelly Berry (21:52): Okay, so a little bit more, I guess, about your transition from corporate to your own business. So what has been so far like the most rewarding part of that?
Lisa Rigoli (22:05): Rewarding and hard to see that it was rewarding was my schedule. It was such a unique shift to go from being in corporate where I truly did not have control of my calendar. I thought I did and I remember preaching to people that I was like great at time management. But when I left corporate, I think the first shock was, my gosh, I have so much time. Like what am I going to do now that I have this time and there's no one to like tell me how I should be spending it and like how much time should be in marketing versus how much time should be with my clients. And so it was a weird transition to complete transparency and I felt completely like a fish out of water. But then a few months in, once I started putting like, okay, well I get to own it and I get to figure out what this looks like, I would say I love my schedule. If I'm not traveling for work, Mondays are my admin days. Tuesday through Thursday, I say I go hard. Those are my longer days with my clients and marketing and selling. And then Fridays I have off. I've always wanted a three-day weekend. I was like, why don't we have three-day weekends in corporate? And now I get to, now that my business has run a full year, I'm able to feel productive and still feel good with the schedule that I have. And it makes my heart happy because I'm present for my kids, I'm present for my husband, and I get to recharge. I get to recharge the way that I need to to show up in the way that I need to in the different seasons that I'm in in my life right now.
Kelly Berry (23:33): Yeah, yeah, that's something I can relate to also. I've mentioned this a few times recently, but we've been self-employed entrepreneurs. However, we were in an office prior to COVID and the shift from in-office to remote felt very much like what you're describing. And it's just, you think that you are organized and balanced and doing all these things, but you don't realize the constraints that are actually on that you're, you know, for me, it was like self-imposed. but you know, now that I've had almost four years now to kind of get into it, you know, it's just like, well, if I wake up and I want to work two hours in the morning before my daughter wakes up and then two more hours and then, you know, three hours. And so that when she gets home at four o'clock, you know, I'm done, you know, I'm not really doing anything anymore. I can do that. And so I think it is liberating, but there also is like discipline involved and you really have to understand and value all aspects of work because, you know, I used to think, okay, well, if I'm working all day and then I go to an event at night, like, you know, I can't detract from my daytime work because I need all those hours. But now it's like, well, if I have an event tonight, maybe I stop working at noon so I can get some more things done and then go back. And it's just a value shift, but it is liberating for sure.
Lisa Rigoli (25:11): It is. And I love, like, as you and especially like your mission behind this podcast, I love that you're highlighting other individuals that are in this space, right? Because I think you hear a different flair on in a different way, but there's still this very similar sentiment of, but I love that I get to be there and be present for the things that I want to be present for. And I think that was what was missing before. Like I thought I had control over it and I realized looking back, I actually didn't. And now, now I do.
Kelly Berry (25:40): Yeah. It's that almost like awareness, new awareness that tells you, okay, well, now I know, now what am I gonna do about it? And you have a lot of options as to the what, but if you never know or you never have that realization, then next thing you know, autopilot and 10 years goes by and yeah. Yeah, so let's...
Lisa Rigoli (25:52): Correct.
Kelly Berry (26:10): Let's talk about what you do for organizations, because I want to get into the building trust and how you do that, because I think there's a lot of parallels between corporate, personal, all of that. So talk about what you all do with Element of Change.
Lisa Rigoli (26:30): So with Element of Change, and it's wild to think too, because again, I started, like I went full time in 2023, and now my firm has seven other coaches that help support other healthcare and retail organizations. And what we do is threefold. There's three parts or three components. We either offer one-on-one executive coaching. So this is for leaders who are in transition. So whether they're newly promoted or they are new to an organization, we come in and we provide coaching to make sure that that leader is showing up authentically. Like part of what you talked about in your podcast mission statement, right? Like how are they showing up authentically? But also how are they acknowledging that whatever they communicate may not always be well received because they're new, they're newer and this team has history. So how do they navigate through it? So we almost become a mirror to them to make sure that they can see what they're actually communicating and what they could do to tweak so that resonates. The second piece is the team component. So we offer offsite retreats. So for that leader that's in transition, we then work with their team in an offsite capacity. So that way the same tools were given to that leader. We're now providing to their direct reports. That way their direct reports have a common language in how they talk about trust and how they talk about communication and how they talk about how they want to be coached and how they want to be seen in this new space of a new leader or a new reorg. And then the last piece that tends to happen naturally is that things are going well and now they realize our training is outdated. Like we don't actually have a way to sustain whatever is happening in the coaching session, what's happening in the offsite that they now want to have content that's readily available that any new hire can listen to a video or read a certain SOP, if you will, on how they navigate through change. And we build that out and we customize it to the team. So coaching, offsite retreats, and training and development is what my team does. And it's under this umbrella of if there is a transition, we come in to help stabilize that team that is existing, that is navigating the loss of the once was. Thank you. It's definitely a pinch me moment for sure.
Kelly Berry (29:30): Yeah, that's a big deal. So definitely kudos. I can't wait to see where you go. But what I would like to hear your perspective on is kind of each of those components. So when you come in and you talk to leaders about how to be more authentic, how come they're not already being authentic? Or what's getting in the way and how do you all help them do that?
Lisa Rigoli (29:56): Yeah, so one of the things that we are obsessed with within my firm is using the assessment called Enneagram. Are you familiar with Enneagram? What's your type?
Kelly Berry (30:03): Mm-hmm, yeah. I think I'm a nine.
Lisa Rigoli (30:09): Nice. Okay. So I'm a two. I'm a considerate. To use a helper. To use a helper nine is Harmony and Peacemaker. So they are.
Kelly Berry (30:12): Is that like the helper? Yeah, what is that? I think I'm a nine with a two wing. Mm-hmm.
Lisa Rigoli (30:25): Wing. Okay. Okay. so we use Enneagram and why we use Enneagram is that Enneagram is a way for us to have common language as we're coaching and as we're talking even to their direct reports. And what I love about Enneagram is that Enneagram doesn't necessarily type you and say that you're only this type. Cause in reality, for those of you that are not familiar with Enneagram, Enneagram is nine different types and each of us can be any of those nine types at any given time, but we all tend to lean into one predominantly based off our experiences to date. And what I love about it is three components. It helps us understand our motivators. It helps us understand what our blind spots are. And it helps us understand what triggers us. So when I say, how do we show up authentically is not to lose what motivates us. What motivates us is our passion. It's what's going to come across even if we don't even realize it. Like there's, it's effortless, right? Like we show up and people know what we're passionate about. Hopefully you can tell like I am really passionate about connections and being around teams and helping leaders be successful. But as a two, as an example, my blind spot is that I tend to disempower people, which feels like a contradicts like what I do as a human being. But what it means is that when people come to me and say to you, Kelly, and you're like, hey, Lisa, I want to tell you about my day and you start like venting about your day as a two, I'm naturally going to want to fix it. Like I'm a helper. Like I don't know how else but to respond to help. But now if you just want it to be heard, I disempowered you if I responded with advice. You're gonna be like, girl, I didn't want advice. I just wanted to be, I just wanted a moment to vent. And that's what I talk about losing the authenticity is that if you're not aware of your blind spots, if you're not aware of your triggers, people will create a false perception of who you are. And if you are aware of it, it allows you to show up more authentically where now when someone's venting to me, I say, my gosh, that's hard, that's heavy. Do you want to be helped? Do you want to be hugged or do you want to be heard? And all three of those are real for me. I'm a hugger. I can let you, I'm a great listener and I'll problem solve with you. So I'm not losing my authenticity, but I'm making sure that I'm not burning bridges and not even realizing I'm burning it by leaning into the thing that motivates me. So we leverage Enneagram as that common language that we could use and have conversations about.
Kelly Berry (32:30): Yeah, I love that. Yeah, we could probably, I know there's so much to it. We could probably talk about it for the rest of our time. But that was a really good answer because I think, you know, perception is everything. And if you can come in knowing how you're gonna be perceived, like you can, you don't have to be like coming, bringing the offense with you, but as long as you understand and you can frame things in a way or, you know, There's a lot of ways to do it, but it goes back to that awareness and just being intentional about your opportunity that you have, how you're gonna show up, how you want others to perceive you and prepare to be seen in that light. So I love that. The next part that you talked about that is really interesting is building trust. So what do you all see happen there and how do you do that?
Lisa Rigoli (33:51): So when we talk about trust, we talk about trust from a place of how do leaders in the room, so a boss and their direct reports, how do they feel comfortable making mistakes in that room or on a day-to-day basis? How do they feel comfortable challenging someone in the room without fear that it's going to be held against them? So we look at trust from like, how do you have healthy dialogue in a way that's going to actually move you forward? And what comes to mind right now for me is I actually just left an offsite retreat earlier this week and we spent a good two hours just talking about trust. And this team, as an example, has worked with each other for years. There were a couple of newer leaders on board, but their supervisor was once their peer and now is their supervisor. And what we were noticing is that mistakes were happening, but no one was calling a spade a spade. What was happening is they were having these silo conversations with each other, but not bringing it to the room. And a lot of damage was happening from an ROI, damage as it relates to patients, and calling it out and this creating awareness of, do you think this is happening? Let me give you an example of what I'm observing, allowed us to actually talk about it in a way of, here's why I don't feel comfortable saying the uncomfortable thing. And then also how do we create a way, we call it a way of working. How do we create a way of working that when we're noticing a feeling bubbling up that we want to instantly text a friend versus say the thing out loud, like what's the thing that we can do? And we came up with the word pineapple. So whenever there are, anyone's feeling that they're going to say pineapple. And it gives everyone the safe moment for the next five or 10 minutes to say the uncomfortable things, knowing that it's not to offend someone. It's not to hurt someone. It's to make sure that we are moving forward and having growth and not making mistakes. So that's what trust means to us. And that's how we are helping with trust of creating awareness and then adding a way of working to bring it all together.
Kelly Berry (35:49): Yeah, like focusing on the problem, not the person, that type of thing. Yeah, so I know this is not necessarily your specialty per se, but I think it would be helpful to talk about like, what does this look like in people's personal lives?
Lisa Rigoli (36:03): Yeah! Yeah, this is probably a fun story and I'm going to tie both Enneagram to it and then personal. So as I shared, like I've known my husband since middle school, but another fun fact is that we actually dated for 12 years on and off long distance. So by the time I moved in with Jay in the same state and then moved into the same house was the weekend before our wedding. So you have to imagine. Correct. So you like put that in your mind, right? And I'm a two. So I'm a considerate helper, which means I am also going to be someone that if someone does something that bothers me, I'm probably not going to say anything until like the eighth or ninth time, because in my mind, it's okay. They don't mean it. That's what a two things like, you know what? We'll figure it's all good. I share this because moving in with my husband, he would leave dirty clothes next to the hamper or there was a lid to the hamper or on the hamper, but never in the hamper and Kelly, it would frustrate me. I'm like, I don't understand as a grown man, because at the time now he's in his late thirties. I'm like, I don't understand. Like, how do you not notice this? And it would happen every, like I was noticing it leading up to laundry day. And then the other thing would happen that would be like the thing that took me over the edge is he would, like after work pre COVID, cause he now works from home as a lawyer, he would come home, he would take off his socks and he would chuck it over to the stairs because in his mind he was like, I'm going to pick those up on my way upstairs. And I see you nodding. He didn't pick it up on his way up the stairs the first day, the second day or the third day, but talk about trust. I love this man. I just shared my vows with this man. I've known this man, but I didn't trust that I could say it out loud because I was like, I don't want to fight. Like I'm worried that if I say it, it's going to start a fight. And there's like bigger things that we could talk about. So for months, this would go on as like a newlywed couple. And then one day I had it, like I had it and I just, I'm like, what the FJ, like how can you not? And what he heard was all this built up tension for months. And in his mind, he's hearing it for the first time, right? Like he's like, I don't understand why you're this upset. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like this has been going on for months. But in his mind, he's like, then why didn't you say it? And it was a lack of trust that we could actually, we didn't know what our way of working was in that space. Like we can have conversations about things like this and it's not going to have to be in a fight. And if it does, what narrative am I holding onto that a fight, what does a fight end us? Like what was the thing that I was so worried? So I share that that's why Enneagram is such a powerful tool because it allows my husband to understand me too. Like we have a common language and even we're still working through like,:What's the thing that we can say that it might piss you off and fighting's okay. It does not mean I love you less. But yeah, hopefully that resonates and hopefully makes some people laugh too. Because if your husband or spouse or partner is not putting dirty laundry in the hamper, call a girlfriend because I can help tell you what you can do differently.
Kelly Berry (39:14): Yeah. So kind of a similar story for Nick and I, my husband and I, because, you know, I've got the two in me, the helper, but he, I don't know what his Enneagram is. I think he's taken it, but, you know, he does not want for something to go on and me not to say anything, you know, for him that loses, you know, I lose trust with him because I'm not helping him become a better person. And so this, the funniness of the story is like, this kind of like manifested for us and unloading the dishwasher. Like if he put something away in the wrong spot, I wouldn't tell him. I would just like, when I saw it, I would go behind him and I would move it. And for him, that's like, why would you let me put this thing in the wrong spot five times before you showed me? And so now it's kind of like our, my check on things is like, am I? Am I walking around behind him moving things around because I just don't want to go through the hassle or I don't want to have to interrupt to your point about like we've got more important things to be talking about than where to put the measuring cup. But you kind of have to understand like what does the other person value? And he does not value somebody walking around behind him picking stuff up instead of just being like, hey, this is what you need to be doing. Do it. So yeah.
Lisa Rigoli (40:56): Yeah, I love that you shared that. It's so real. It's so true.
Kelly Berry (40:59): It is. And we've done all the things like DiSC and tons of, and they're all tools that come in and they have their own place. But I think anything that can help you understand how somebody else thinks, how they communicate, what's important to them, can just help make sure that you are on and stay on the same page. Yeah. So. I guess, you know, we already talked some about like blending personal and professional life and like how you have organized your schedule. What I didn't ask, it's like what has been the hardest thing about working for yourself?
Lisa Rigoli (41:49): Hmm, hardest thing. Actually, I think the hardest thing is much as I can be like, my gosh, it's a pinch me moment that I have these seven amazing women that are helping the firm grow and make an impact. There was a moment of, can I let it go? Like, can I let this person take an extension of me and go off to one of our clients and show up in their own way? Because I think I hopefully my team will vouch for this. Like I'm very big on here's the culture of element of change. Here's the curriculum of Element of Change. But now go take it and run with it and be authentic as you as a human being and how you're going to show up as a coach, a facilitator, a trainer, etc. But there was a moment where it felt like how you feel when you're first dropping your kid off at daycare, where it's like, can I trust that these people are going to care for my baby the way that I would care for them? Are they going to make sure the diapers are changed fast enough? Are they going to feed them and burp them and hug them? Like, does that, like, it was this fear factor of, will it be, will it, maybe will it be enough? Will it be the same? And I remember like sitting up at night thinking, maybe I'll just go with them for the first one, or maybe I'll go with them for the second one. I was like, what's happening? Like I, I can't go to school with my kids a day. Like they're not going to let me sit in a daycare. So why do I feel, why do I feel this need to almost do that with my team?
And that was the hardest thing. And I think it's still going to be hard. It's still going to be hard to let go in that way. But I have to also trust that I hired the right people. And if I didn't hire the right people, then that will be a road that we cross later. But I do feel very confident that I hired people that are compassionate and know how to confidently show up in a way that's authentic to them.
Kelly Berry (43:33): Yeah, that's awesome. And I think that the parenting analogy is so true. You know, you're putting the thing that is most important to you out into the world, and now you have to make sure that, you know, these people that you've nurtured or, you know, hired or whatever, you know, they take those values and they're evident to the other people that come in contact with. Yeah, there's a lot of courage, I think, in that. So that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So before, you know, we're running up against time, but I did want to give you the opportunity to talk about, like, are there any, like, commonalities in these leadership challenges that you see in people that you work with or, you know, just in general, people in the workplace that you think it would be good to highlight what you see a lot and how people navigate those.
Lisa Rigoli (44:42): Yeah, the theme that I see across the board is that all leaders that are going through some form of transition, whether you are a direct leader, you're a little bit more reserved leader, whatever your style is, whatever your Enneagram type is, you all have a gut feeling when something doesn't feel right, whether it's in how you're showing up or how your team is perceiving your information. And what I notice is that because we're all working in this very fast-paced environment, especially more so in corporate, where you're asked to do more with fewer resources, that there's this fear factor of, I don't have time to slow down to figure out what I need to do differently, to either be perceived differently or to get my team to feel heard. And that's when you realize that you're stepping into some poo poo, right? Like, I tell my team that when I say slow down to speed up, I'm not saying slow down on all the things that you're working on, but that thing that is keeping you up at night, you would actually be able to sleep better if you figure out how you hit the pause button and say, you know what, I'm going to block time, dedicate a time for us to actually knock out this challenge in a way that we're creating awareness around what it is and then finding our new way of working, creating awareness that we don't know how to say the uncomfortable thing in the room. And our way of working is now we're going to call it pineapple every time we're doing something so that we pause. Like if we did more of that, when we get that gut feeling, I think leaders would start to see more traction. That's what we talk about that kickstart in our mission statement. You'll start to see more growth because a team will feel seen, you'll feel heard and momentum happens.
Kelly Berry (46:21): Yeah, yeah, and there's so many ways that that's applicable to your, you know, people's personal lives. A common theme that has come up, you know, and it's been with my guests that are women and talking about, you know, women as leaders is we've suppressed the trust that we have in ourselves to make good decisions. And we have stopped listening to our gut and we, for whatever reason, just think whether it's we don't have time. It's going to slow us down or we're just not as confident in our intuition as we should be that we just we've stopped doing that so I think you know, this is another iteration of that same message that I would just love for listeners to take away is you know, you you know, and when you feel that even if you think you don't have time, you know, you just need to stop and kind of like honor that and start listening. And then you can decide how you're going to handle it or how you're going to proceed, not proceed or whatever your decision is. But I would just really encourage that to be your signal to pause and consider. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. This has been great. Yeah.
Lisa Rigoli (47:40): 100% Well said. It's been good. I agree.
Kelly Berry (47:49): It's been really good. I think there's a lot of really good takeaways in there and I really can't congratulate you enough for stepping out and just you've made pretty big steps in a pretty short amount of time and I have no doubt that the situations that your team goes into and organizations that you all are just, you're making a big difference for a lot of people. So congrats. Yeah.
Lisa Rigoli (48:15): Thank you, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Kelly Berry (48:18): Well, thank you. And I will include Lisa's social handles and everything where you can go connect with her. She has a really great Instagram account, has really good content. It's part business, part humor, all real. And yeah, yeah. So she's a really good follow. I encourage you all to do that. And thank you so much, Lisa, for sharing all your insight and wisdom.
Lisa Rigoli (48:37): Love the puff. Yeah. Thanks Kelly for having me.
Kelly Berry (48:50): Have a great day. We'll talk to you later. Bye.
Lisa Rigoli (48:51): You too. Bye.
Kelly Berry is a strategic business leader and business coach. She is known for her operational excellence and her ability to drive growth and results across multiple industries.
She is also hosting her own podcast, Life Intended.
